"Navel Gays" is Wrong about Autoandrophilia

Years ago, I took an interest in the subject of autosexuality. Autosexuality is a poorly understood topic that is vital to understanding the causes of Gender Dysphoria in natal males, where it manifests as “autogynephilia”. When it comes to Autogynephilia, the “Big Three” books to read are Michael Bailey’s The Man Who Would Be Queen, Anne Lawrence’s Men Trapped in Men’s Bodies, and Phil Ily’s Autoheterosexual. 

In the years since publishing Autoheterosexual, the author Phil Ily has cultivated a community of self-aware autogynephiles, including the full range of transvestites, transsexuals, and detransitioners. I no longer have the same interest in autogynephilia that I once had, but I recommend seeking out this community if you are interested in learning more about it. 

When it comes to natal females, two of the most important internet figures were/are the detransitioner Laura Reynolds and Aaron Terrell, a trans man who self-identifies as autoandrophilic. Aaron is co-host of a podcast called Navel Gays with Tali Botz, who is not trans but is also very knowledgeable about autosexuality. The topic of autosexuality in natal females (specifically, “autoandrophilia”) is controversial amongst sexologists, where giants in the field like Michael Bailey doubt its existence. I have a personal interest in this topic, as I think it is plausible that a phenomenon related to autoandrophilia (“androgynemorphophilia”; attraction to FTMs) caused Gender Identity Disorder in myself.

I have been slowly watching episodes of the Navel Gays in order to refresh my memory on autosexuality. Some of Terrell and Botz’s observations are spot-on. For example, I agree with them that “autohomoeroticism” might actually be “interpersonal autoandrophilia”; a true counterpart to autogynephilia that frequently takes the “interpersonal” form because female sexuality is more “relationally-oriented” than male sexuality. At that, I also think “sartorial autoandrophilia” exists, and that it is found in “asexual”-identified FTMs who have a sexual interest in packers and men’s underwear. Even in its sartorial form, autoandrophilia is less “object-oriented” than sartorial autogynephilia, for the reasons Terrell and Botz claim.

All that being said, I take issue with statements made in the following episode: 

 [7:09] Botz: "We think that autoandrophilia is actually the cause of the majority of the non-ROGD females. So we think that autoandrophilia accounts for many, if not most, of the butch lesbians who were and are today seeking gender transition and the gay trans men (the straight girls, basically, who are fixated on becoming gay men through their transition). We think that autoandrophilia encompasses, or accounts for both of those different presentations. So autoandrophilia, we’re saying, is what causes gender dysphoria, and gender dysphoria is then what causes transgender identification…”

[8:18] Terrell: “...Just going through what Autoandrophilic Gender Dysphoria is going to look like, that is going to look like a strong desire from a very young age to be one of the boys…In a lot of cases, these girls are your tomboys…They’re going to gravitate towards male friends, they’re going to gravitate towards natural or typical male interests…This could have a lot to do with a fetal masculinization that occurred, or it could just be early signs of that desire to manifest masculinity because…we see that in the autogynephilic males as well. A strong desire to be with the girls, play the girl games. They aren’t naturally feminine though, whereas the auto–what we’re classifying as autoandrophilic girls, they do often tend to be, kind of, naturally more masculine…”

These statements from Botz and Terrell are misleading and unscientific. 

Botz’s claim that autoandrophilia is the root cause of gender dysphoria in natal females is dubious, with Michael Bailey being one of the biggest opponents to this position. The bigger issue is the statements that I have bolded, where Terrell and Botz characterize nonhomosexual autoandrophiles as being “naturally masculine”. 

In natal females, there are two types of Gender Dysphoria:

• TYPE I: “Homosexual transsexuals”; Early Onset Gender Dysphoria and a sexual preference for females

• TYPE II: “Nonhomosexual transsexuals”; Late Onset Gender Dysphoria and no sexual preference for females

I say “preference”, as exclusive attraction to females might not be necessary.

Terrell and Botz have collapsed TYPE I and TYPE II into a single category, which they have dubbed “Autoandrophilic”. This misrepresents both types. Evidence of fetal masculinization has only been found in TYPE I (“HSTS”). It has not been found in TYPE II. 

A literature review of research on FTMs confirms this. See: 

1. Guillamon, A., Junque, C., & Gómez-Gil, E. (2016). A review of the status of brain structure research in transsexualism. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 45, 1615-1648.

2. Burke, S. M., Manzouri, A. H., & Savic, I. (2017). Structural connections in the brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation. Scientific Reports, 7(1), 17954.

3. Chivers, M. L., & Bailey, J. M. (2000). Sexual orientation of female-to-male transsexuals: A comparison of homosexual and nonhomosexual types. Archives of sexual behavior, 29, 259-278.

Key quote from the second paper: “...the present study revealed, like in several previous studies, sex-atypical FA values in transgender individuals. However, and importantly, these values became sex-typical after accounting for sexual orientation.” In other words, male-like brain structures were only found in the gynephilic FTMs, not non-gynephilic FTMs.

In the Transmedical community, there is a propensity for “TYPE II” FTMs to falsely claim they have male-like brains. Their motivation for doing so seems to be rooted in the idea that one must have cross-sex brain structures in order to be “valid” as a transsexual. This is a position I fundamentally reject. If there is a brain condition that causes Gender Dysphoria, it is not necessary for that to be “fetal masculinization”, as testosterone therapy masculinizes the brain and makes one more male-like in biology. The “autoandrophiles” insisting they were born with cross-sex brain structures are setting themselves up for failure, as there is no evidence of this in peer-reviewed literature. In collapsing “TYPE I” and “TYPE II” into the single category of “Autoandrophile”, Terrell and Botz make the same error as the Transmedicalists. 

FTMs with Late Onset Gender Dysphoria (like myself) need to stop doing this. It is unscientific and unfair to “TYPE I” FTMs, who actually do have male-like brains.

EDIT: When I first published this, I had confused Aaron Terrell with another person, and thought he was of the autohomoerotic etiology. I had this wrong. For the most part, I stand by the rest of this post, as I think the Navel Gays podcast is spreading pseudoscience.